Comments on: What Do Emergence and Pentecostalism Have to Learn from One Another?

By: Mike Morrell

Mike Morrell — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:18:30 +0000

Great conversation! Here is some more compost.

By: Ravens

Ravens — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 01:03:36 +0000

[...] Jones has mentioned his participation at the Society of Pentecostal Studies conference in Minneapolis next month which suggests [...]

By: Darrin Rodgers

Darrin Rodgers — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:16:16 +0000

Ryan, I generally agree with what you say about the importance of Missio Dei in Pentecostal identity. However, as I mentioned in my prior post, I think that the desire for full consecration, historically, was the reason-for-being for early Pentecostals. Early Pentecostals were Christians who wanted to be more fully devoted to Christ AND His mission. The concept of full consecration includes relationship with God/personal holiness AND mission. This parallels James 1:27, which states that pure religion is: “to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” Both compassion and purity. I don’t think that one can really fulfill the mission of God apart from personal holiness and intimate relationship wth God; but we have many people who are trying to do just that. One cannot, for instance, embrace sexual sin (including affirmation of gay marriage) and fulfill the mission of God. Early Pentecostal literature is overflowing with calls to self-denial for the sake of lifting Christ up to the world.

The discussion about first, second and third naivetes is interesting. Do the advocates of this framework apply it to periods or groups within Pentecostalism (so that early Pentecostalism or certain churches reflects aspects of first naivete, etc.), or is it a framework that just applies to an individual’s spiritual journey?

By: Ryan Beaty

Ryan Beaty — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 22:39:49 +0000

In talking with a friend of me about this, and being someone who considers myself an Emerging Pentecostal, I believe there is a very clear starting point with which to begin the conversation, and its with the Missio De’.

Both Pentecostals and Emergents are wholly focused upon and driven by the mission of God and it’s missional lifestyle. The entire idea of Pentecost and Spirit-Empowerment is for the fulfillment of the Mission of God. There is a reason that Azusa Street mobilized thousands of missionaries and spawned organizations, like the AG, which has missions at its very heart and just this past year officially added “Ministries of Compassion” as a fourth reason for being.

The missional lifestyle is the bridge that connects the two by which all other connections spring. Of course they are similar because they have the same purpose, and that my friends excites me!

By: A. Amos Love

A. Amos Love — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:14:35 +0000

Staci

Thanks – appreciated you comment #30

Sounds like a wonderful journey. A wonderful learning experience.
An exciting adventure with Jesus.

You write…
“Bigger trumps deeper every time.”

Always noticed that too. Now I can explain it in only five words.
Thanks a bunch.

“I have learned that I am a non-literalist, evangelical,
post-modernist, blah, blah, blah… but what does that mean
if I/we cannot share the experience with anyone?”

Labels, titles, movements, AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
Now when I’m looking for a new movement…
I eat a box of prunes.

“Have I branched into a Utopic and naive desire
for something that can never be?”

I would say your on “His” path.
You (and I) have been a lot of places (movements) and they all fall short.

My freedom and my “Utopic and naive desire” was fulfilled
in”Christ alone.” and my relationship with Him.
Keep looking, keep desiring, He will answer.

Everything to the natural eye, the natural mind, the carnal mind,
is at enmity with God.

Every religion, every movement, every new thing,
this world, and man, has to offer disapoints those who love Jesus.
It looks good for awhile. But eventually you have to move on.
Only Jesus satisfies.

Why isn’t Jesus enough?

A question I started asking myself.

Lord Jesus, what am I looking for? Why aren’t you enough?

1Cor 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard,
neither have entered into the heart of man, the things
which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Eph 3:20
Now unto him (Jesus) that is able to do exceeding abundantly above
all that we ask or think…

If Jesus is able to do **exceeding** ** abundantly** ** above**
“ALL” that we ask or think.

Why “ASK?” Why “THINK.” My suggestion is stop asking and thinking.

Just learn to hear “HIS VOICE” and obey “HIM”
For me it became…

Trust and obey – NOT think and decide.

Not my will Lord, but your will be done.

Trust and obey – NOT think and decide.

The Lord is “MY” shephered.
“I” shall not “WANT.”

Be blessed in your search for truth… Jesus.

By: Corky Alexander

Corky Alexander — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 17:13:18 +0000

I am very excited about the discussion. I am going to be listening closely to how emergence can be so interested in European culture, given the historical baggage it holds in relationship to Native/indigenous peoples. Let’s do this!

By: tony

tony — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 14:30:22 +0000

I’m with Cheryl (who, not coincidentally, is responding to me at the conference). This comment string is fantastic. I’ve been sitting back and reading. Feel free to add your thoughts, whether you’re new to the conversation or want to respond to something above. I’m focusing on my dissertation this week and next and doing some reading on this paper in the background. I’ll bear down on this topic starting February 15.

In other words, I’ll be back to read these comments several times as I prep.

By: Cheryl Bridges Johns

Cheryl Bridges Johns — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:24:01 +0000

If the above comments are any indication, it seems that we will have rich discussion at the upcoming SPS meeting. I’m impressed with how well the above have nuanced the issues.

By: michael mcmullin

michael mcmullin — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:35:31 +0000

“Pentecostalism” includes such a wide spectrum of thought. I agree with a previous commenter, that finding a place to start may be the biggest challenge.

There are Pentecostals on the extreme right and left of the spectrum, theologically, politically, socially, etc. Some will see no need for a discussion on the “emerging church” while others will be quite conversant.

I also agree that Pentecostalism and Emergence will find common ground in the more mystical aspects of our faith. They will also share an appreciation for creative use of scripture (both hermeneutics and homiletics). Narrative theology is standard in many Pentecostal seminaries.

I think the earliest Pentecostals might have more in common with the post-modern expressions of Christianity than some who have so closely aligned themselves to mainstream evangelicalism. Neo-Pentecostalism does seem to be jumping back to pre-Evangelical days to embrace those early Pentecostals.

This might be one starting place, to talk about how much early Pentecostals share with emergence. They were post-modern before post-modern was cool.

Looking forward to hearing you at SPS in Minneapolis. I’m sure it will be a great discussion.

By: Nithin Thompson

Nithin Thompson — Mon, 01 Feb 2010 04:50:45 +0000

This is a great question! I find that I straddle between the world’s of postmodern/emergent thought and neo-pentecostal/3rd wave Christianity (charismergent?). I discovered both at the same time. I believe that both movements are responses to modernity, even though classical postmodernism has made some accommodations to it. While i haven’t studied the movements as deeply as I’d like, it seems that there is a common or similar hermeneutic that is employed. The 2nd naivete was thrown around in the above threads, so I don’t want to use it incorrectly, but there is an innocence to the approach of the text by both groups. One is based on the Holy Spirit giving direct and divine information, while the other is based on scholarship and cultural deconstruction. I think the 2 movements have more in common than can be expressed here. Is it any wonder that Todd Hunter was part of both movement (Vineyard and early emergent)? I think that as the two movements continue to converge, we’ll see something interesting emerge.